Why I shut down my Patreon fundraiser

By Holly Lisle

I’d intended to send a Questions & Answers email to my How to Write a Novel launch list, but that’s going to have to wait.Instead, I did THIS.

Closed my “Move out of Florida while writing fiction” fundraiser.

Here’s why — it’s this clause in the Patreon Legal Agreement


By posting content to Patreon you grant us a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, sublicensable, worldwide license to use, reproduce, distribute, perform, publicly display or prepare derivative works of your content.

Understand that I read that clause and all the rest of them before signing up.

BUT… I’m not a lawyer, and I understood that clause to mean that Patreon was claiming the right to use my Patreon-created content (in other words, my POSTS) to promote the site.

I DID NOT think that they were claiming the right to use and abuse the content I was giving my patrons. In this case, three monthly chapters of the raw first draft of one of my current novels in progress, Dead Man’s Party.

A friend emailed me with a link to this post, however:


Turns out, I was wrong. Patreon is claiming rights to my novel.

So I’m out. I sent the first copy of this email to my patrons using a private Patreon post, and then I shut down my Patreon fundraiser, and am now trying to figure out how to actually close my account.

I’m not letting this kill my dream of moving us out of Florida…
…(hopefully before the next hurricane, if not the start of the hurricane season).

How you can help, if you want to —

I have created original classes ranging from under ten dollars to way over a hundred. If one of the classes I offer could help you, then you buying it would help me.


*** How to Write a Novel *** 


(IN LAUNCH: On sale ONLY through Tuesday APRIL 8 — Final Discount Launch)

How to Revise Your Novel: 


How to Write a Series: 


How to Think Sideways: Career Survival School for Writers: 


WRITING CRAFT SERIES (Each class is under $10)

Create a Character Clinic: 


Create A Plot Clinic: 


How to Write Page-Turning Scenes: 


WORLDBUILDING SERIES (Each class is under $10)

Create A Language Clinic: 


Create a Culture Clinic: 


Create a World Clinic: 



How to Write Short Stories: 


How to Write Villains: 


How to Write Dialogue with Subtext: 


Title Cover Copy Marketing Basics: 


How to Find Your Writing Discipline: 


How to Find Your Writing Voice: 


How to Motivate Yourself: 


Beat Writer’s Block: 



How to Write Flash Fiction That Doesn’t Suck




You can help out by buying some of my indie-published fiction.


Light Through Fog: 




Strange Arrivals: 



Fire in the Mist: 


Bones of the Past:


Mind of the Magic:




Both of the Cadence Drake novels Hunting the Corrigan’s Blood and Warpaint, are off sale while I come up with new titles and new cover art for them, and new key words, descriptions, and other marketing that allows me to correctly put them in front of the audience that likes a few vampires and a bit of horror with its spaceships.

The Longview Chronicles (complete Series) is in the same universe — still dark, but without the vampires:


Or you can get the individual stories:

Born from Fire: 


Suzee Delight: 


Philosopher Gambit: 


Gunslinger Moon: 


Vipers’ Nest: 


The Owner’s Tale: 



Minerva Wakes: 



Author Page: 


Midnight Rain: 


Last Girl Dancing:


I See You: 


I have much more fiction that’s commercially published, or which is out of print and has reverted to me, but which I have not yet republished.

I’m not linking to ANY of that fiction, because your purchase of used books or books where publishers haven’t paid royalties in years will not help me.

So there we are.

I want to thank all my patrons again, and I am so sorry that I had to do this, but there is no way I can permit this:

Excerpted from Patreon Legal Terms

You keep full ownership of all content that you post on Patreon, but to operate we need licenses from you.

By posting content to Patreon you grant us a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, sublicensable, worldwide license to use, reproduce, distribute, perform, publicly display or prepare derivative works of your content. 

No. Just NO.

P.S. I have had one of my Patreon patrons already ask me how she could continue to support me on a monthly basis.

Here’s the answer I gave her:

“I’ll look into what’s available. Right now, I’m crushed to discover the rights Patreon actually claimed, and worried about getting involved with any other site. So I’m in limbo. You’ll find my blog at HollyLisle.com. I’ll be keeping my folks there up to date on how I deal with this. It sucks.

Hugs, and thank you for asking.”

Why is EVERYBODY on my blog, my mailing list, and in my forums getting this?

Because if you know me, you’re probably either a reader or a writer. If you’re a writer, you may be considering using Patreon, and you need to know. If you’re a reader considering funding someone on Patreon, THEY need to know.

And this is the ugliest, broadest rights-grab I have personally ever seen. Or sadly, been caught up in.

Contents © Holly Lisle. https://hollylisle.com All Rights Reserved

The New Paranormal Suspense Covers

By Holly Lisle

I finished the following covers for my upcoming novels today:

Midnight Rain

I See You

Last Girl Dancing

Night Echoes

Because of a bit of a financial bump, I’m pushing hard to get all the backlist up in the next couple of months. To my amazement (because I thought exactly the opposite), I think the suspense novels are going to take the longest. I’m having to go through them and edit to bring the late-draft manuscript versions I have up to the published versions.

The scans don’t have to be rewritten. They just have to be edited, and my guys (and in two cases, my co-authors) are working on that.

So my release schedule is going to change completely, and will probably start with either the Arhel trilogy or the Devil’s Point trilogy.

But there will be books soon. 😀

Contents © Holly Lisle. https://hollylisle.com All Rights Reserved

A Book Giveaway (sort of)

By Holly Lisle

Lots of my novels for free if you’ll pay the postage.

I underestimated the extent of my problem. And I do have a few copies of some of the later Baen books. And I found the missing Vengeance of Dragons copies. Lots of them.
My Problem, Part One
My Problem, Part Two

Any more volunteers?

Also, much to my amazement, I have no remaining copies of the historical thing. Many apologies. Holly

P.S. The scary thing is, I suspect there are still more books hiding in corners. I’m afraid.

SATURDAY: The Original Post

I have a bunch of copies of my own work I need to get rid of.

  • I’d have one massive contest and winners galore, but I can’t afford the shipping for that many books.
  • I can’t sell them–that’s in the contracts.
  • I don’t want to dump them at libraries; I’d rather give them to individual folks.
  • I considered doing a Books of the Wild thing, where I’d send boxes of books to people who agreed to send all but one of the books out into the world to meet new people, who could then log into a Wild Books Tracking Station to note where they got their book, and where they passed it on when they were done with it, with rules taped into the inside front covers to let the readers know how to find and log into the tracking station, (I thought this would be particularly cool) but as previously noted, I don’t have the money for all that shipping, and I can’t ask folks to pay shipping and then only keep one book.


I have at least a few of most of my more recent books (most of my post-Baen work) and a lot of a few of them. And I have some flat rate shipping boxes that ship to anywhere in the US for $8.95. In order to cover PayPal fees and packing up the box, add an extra dollar–total US shipping will be $9.95. Each box will comfortably fit 6 paperbacks, and as long as they last, one hardcover or galley. When I run out of hardcovers and galleys, I’ll throw in three extra paperbacks. (These are likely to be duplicates. If I have to send duplicates and you didn’t indicate that you wanted them, I’ll let you know before you pay for the shipping.)

If you’re willing to pay the postage, I’ll ship you a box of mixed books. If you don’t mind duplicates (to give to friends, for example), please note this in your entry. I have quite a few paperback Talyns, for example.

I’ll autograph one book in each box–I hurt my wrists, the right one especially, from too much knitting, which I’ve been using to deal with stress, and typing is painful and hand-writing pure agony. (Forget knitting. At the moment, I can barely hold yarn.) So give me your wish-list of three books you’d like to own in autographed form in order of your preference, and if I have it, I’ll sign and include one of those three books in the box. If I don’t, I’ll pick what I think is the best book in the box and autograph that one. These books won’t be personalized, just dated and signed. I apologize for this, because I usually personalize unless requested not to, but … pain. We’re not going to mention how exciting it is to type this.

I also have a couple of surprises (still my books, but special or odd in some way or another). No comment on those, but they’ll ship in the first boxes to go out.

All books are new, unread, but some do have dings on corners or other flaws–the boxes seem to pass through punishment testing en route to me from time to time.

If you enjoy ancient historical fiction, note this and I’ll throw in an unrelated book of which I happen to have a whole bunch of copies. If you really like it, I’ll send a few extra (I have lots and lots of copies). Just ask.

Here are the rules:

  1. You have to have some way of using PayPal, whether through your own PayPal account, a debit card, credit card, or checking account, to do this.
  2. Don’t send any money until I’ve packed your box and contacted you (and we’ve agreed on the shipping price if you’re outside the US).
  3. Special requests are first come, first served.
  4. All book boxes are ALSO first come, first served.
  5. If you have any books you already have and don’t want to accidentally get another of (even to pass on), please list these.
  6. The times on replies will serve as the final arbiter of who asked first. I will religiously check the spam and rescue requests while this offer is ongoing. If you have fallen afoul of the spam-catcher, let me know right away at holly AT hollylisle DOT com.
  7. This offer is only good until I run out of books.

The average value of a box of 6 paperback books with one hardcover will be about $67. I can’t guess the value of the galleys, but to collectors, I’m sure they’re fairly valuable. Average value of a box of nine paperbacks without a hardcover or galley will be about $63. If you’re outside the US, keep this number in mind when figuring shipping. You don’t want to pay more than the value of the books, and you’d probably want to stop at about half the value. For orders outside the US, we’ll figure on a case-by-case basis. You’re never obligated to buy–if shipping is too much for your budget, I can pack up just one or two books for you in a sturdy envelope or little box, or you can pass your box on to the next person on the list.

Make sure your e-mail address in your account on this weblog is correct, because that’s how I’ll contact each of you.

That’s it. If you’re interested, let me know here. The giveaway starts now.

Contents © Holly Lisle. https://hollylisle.com All Rights Reserved

I See You Give-Away, and Update

By Holly Lisle

Jean is giving away a copy of I SEE YOU.

I’m struggling with deadlines, a book that isn’t coming together the way I’d like, and my older son’s dying cat. Last few days have been rough.

Contents © Holly Lisle. https://hollylisle.com All Rights Reserved

First Chapter of I SEE YOU Is Up

By Holly Lisle

Put the first chapter of I SEE YOU on the site, will get the second one up in the next week or so, and then the third a week or two after that.

I hope you enjoy.

Contents © Holly Lisle. https://hollylisle.com All Rights Reserved

I SEE YOU: Romantic Times Top Pick

By Holly Lisle

iseeu.jpg Just got the news from Michelle Rowen that I See You got 4 1/2 stars and a Top Pick from Romantic Times.

Here’s a quote from the review: “Talk about putting readers on the edge of their seats! Lisle’s new thriller is a gut-wrenching combination of terror and romance, with a touch of the paranormal. The well-defined characters breathe life into this creepy, intense tale, making it truly unforgettable.”

Which reminds me–I need to get the first couple of chapters up. The book will be on shelves the first of July, and I’d sort of forgotten that.

Michelle’s new book, Angel With Attitude, will also be coming out in July, and got 4 stars. Her first, Bitten and Smitten, was funny and wonderful, and I’m really looking forward to seeing what she’s done next.

Contents © Holly Lisle. https://hollylisle.com All Rights Reserved

Didn’t Break EVERYthing

By Holly Lisle

I switched over to WordPress 2.01 this morning while I was on the phone with my son. (If it’s 4:30 am his time, he remembers to call.)

The site seems to be working correctly, although the RSS feed on the front page of the site is now carrying comments instead of articles. I’m going to have to troop through the code and see what’s up with that.

I did not finish any of what I wanted to get done yesterday. However, I did complete what I had to finish–those three deceptively simple questions in I See You. Yeah. My entire workday went down the drain on those puppies. But I got the thing in the mail in time, and it didn’t cost me a forty+ dollar overnight shipping fee, either.

Today, I’m going to have to sit down and figure out an honest-to-God work schedule. I’ve discovered that, much as I’d like to be, I’m not a winging-it kind of writer, and I’m into February already, with less done than I want.

That line from Romancing the Stone: “There are esschedules to be maintained … even in Columbia.” I like that line. It speaks to me.

Contents © Holly Lisle. https://hollylisle.com All Rights Reserved

Ah … Weekends

By Holly Lisle

I’ve actually been observing weekends so far this year, forcing myself to turn off the office computer on Friday when I wrap and and not permitting myself to turn it back on until Monday morning. (I still check the customer-support e-mail account once a day over the weekend, but I do that from the family computer, and I don’t let myself do anything else on the site.)

I’m not sure just yet what effect on my writing taking real days off will have. I haven’t adjusted. It’s been nice from a family perspective, though. I hang out with the guys, we do fairly impressive imitations of the Solanum tuberosum grabatus, or common couch potato. We stay up together on Saturday and listen to Art Bell. I knit.

Border, Experimental Sweater
This is the current thing I’m knitting. It is the unblocked bottom border of an experimental sweater. I haven’t yet built the body — have a few more blocks to do to finish the border, and then I’ll start working in the verticals.

I also did almost the entire copyedit of I SEE YOU over the weekend, but that was minor. The changes were minimal, and I did most of it while watching the SuperBowl. (Not a football fan.) I still have three points on the copyedit to finish up today, things that could potentially cause some reworking. But not a lot, I don’t think. Then I need to get to work on the proposal for the next one. A crit. Worldbuilding Clinic. HTCB. Cady II. Get the redesign on the website that includes the Shop links finished.

I try not to think about the list of to-dos. Especially on the weekends, when my aggravating workaholic side kicks and screams and tries to lure me into the office on all sorts of ludicrous pretexts. I keep reminding myself that last year was not fun, that I do not want to duplicate it this year, that if I rest regularly, I will not finish out the year thinking never writing again might not be such a bad thing. I have fallen back on knitting like a junkie falls on crack; knitting hits the switch on my brain that silences the workaholic. It induces a transcendental state wherein I am present in the moment, but wherein the moments become silence, the stitches and patterns form, the colors connect in their odd juxtapositions, picking up each others highlights, and the textures play off one other. My fingers move, progress progresses, and the hurry-up-stuff-to-do-let’s-go-let’s-go part of me gets the crap kicked out of it by the serene, meditative me that is doing something.

Knitting is something. It’s especially something for Type A Libra/Metal Rats who, after more than a minute of doing nothing, begin fidgeting. So far, since I picked it back up shortly before Christmas, I’ve knitted two sweaters, one and a half pairs of socks (long story), a big blanket, and most of a third, dressy sweater. Plus the border above. With eyebrow arched, I note that that’s a lot of relaxing.

Contents © Holly Lisle. https://hollylisle.com All Rights Reserved

Done, Done with I SEE YOU

By Holly Lisle

I’ve been slogging the manuscript revision for days. Tonight, just a few minutes ago, I finished the last of the revision type-in and sent it out to my editor. Tomorrow, I’ll send the tabbed hand-edited copy to her overnight.

Done, done, done.

I heard from Anna Genoese on HAWKSPAR just today. She really liked it. We’ll bat ideas back and forth and pretty soon I’ll start into the revision of that.

Meanwhile, though, I have some time where I can do nothing but crits and worldbuilding classes while I think about the next projects I want to propose. And work on the store. The affiliate program still isn’t working right, and the temp-shop programmer is trying to figure out why. I hope we’ll be able to get it fixed tomorrow. I spent hours on it yesterday and today without any luck.

Mentally, I’m still in that funny, fuzzy, sunlight-drenched, cotton-wrapped place. It almost feels like, having stopped the ceaseless forward rush that has been propelling me for the last however many years, I don’t yet have the power built up to make myself move again. The feeling is pleasant. Like sleeping in on sun-dried sheets on a Saturday, only all the time.

I’ve been neglecting regular posting on the weblog, but that’s part of it. This decadent cat-like basking does not lend itself to regular output or massive effort (though the last few days have included plenty of that.)

I’ll kick myself back into gear soon.

Contents © Holly Lisle. https://hollylisle.com All Rights Reserved

Done, DONE, Done, DONE!

By Holly Lisle

Create A Character Clinic is done. Came in at just over 30,000 words, is on its way in beta version to my readers, and I am HAPPY. And done for at least a few days.

Heard from Claire this morning that she loved I SEE YOU, that the revisions are small and few, and that she’d like to have another book with my EMTs from ISY. All in all, today has been a damned good day.

Contents © Holly Lisle. https://hollylisle.com All Rights Reserved