Why I shut down my Patreon fundraiser

By Holly Lisle

I’d intended to send a Questions & Answers email to my How to Write a Novel launch list, but that’s going to have to wait.Instead, I did THIS.

Closed my “Move out of Florida while writing fiction” fundraiser.

Here’s why — it’s this clause in the Patreon Legal Agreement


By posting content to Patreon you grant us a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, sublicensable, worldwide license to use, reproduce, distribute, perform, publicly display or prepare derivative works of your content.

Understand that I read that clause and all the rest of them before signing up.

BUT… I’m not a lawyer, and I understood that clause to mean that Patreon was claiming the right to use my Patreon-created content (in other words, my POSTS) to promote the site.

I DID NOT think that they were claiming the right to use and abuse the content I was giving my patrons. In this case, three monthly chapters of the raw first draft of one of my current novels in progress, Dead Man’s Party.

A friend emailed me with a link to this post, however:


Turns out, I was wrong. Patreon is claiming rights to my novel.

So I’m out. I sent the first copy of this email to my patrons using a private Patreon post, and then I shut down my Patreon fundraiser, and am now trying to figure out how to actually close my account.

I’m not letting this kill my dream of moving us out of Florida…
…(hopefully before the next hurricane, if not the start of the hurricane season).

How you can help, if you want to —

I have created original classes ranging from under ten dollars to way over a hundred. If one of the classes I offer could help you, then you buying it would help me.


*** How to Write a Novel *** 


(IN LAUNCH: On sale ONLY through Tuesday APRIL 8 — Final Discount Launch)

How to Revise Your Novel: 


How to Write a Series: 


How to Think Sideways: Career Survival School for Writers: 


WRITING CRAFT SERIES (Each class is under $10)

Create a Character Clinic: 


Create A Plot Clinic: 


How to Write Page-Turning Scenes: 


WORLDBUILDING SERIES (Each class is under $10)

Create A Language Clinic: 


Create a Culture Clinic: 


Create a World Clinic: 



How to Write Short Stories: 


How to Write Villains: 


How to Write Dialogue with Subtext: 


Title Cover Copy Marketing Basics: 


How to Find Your Writing Discipline: 


How to Find Your Writing Voice: 


How to Motivate Yourself: 


Beat Writer’s Block: 



How to Write Flash Fiction That Doesn’t Suck




You can help out by buying some of my indie-published fiction.


Light Through Fog: 




Strange Arrivals: 



Fire in the Mist: 


Bones of the Past:


Mind of the Magic:




Both of the Cadence Drake novels Hunting the Corrigan’s Blood and Warpaint, are off sale while I come up with new titles and new cover art for them, and new key words, descriptions, and other marketing that allows me to correctly put them in front of the audience that likes a few vampires and a bit of horror with its spaceships.

The Longview Chronicles (complete Series) is in the same universe — still dark, but without the vampires:


Or you can get the individual stories:

Born from Fire: 


Suzee Delight: 


Philosopher Gambit: 


Gunslinger Moon: 


Vipers’ Nest: 


The Owner’s Tale: 



Minerva Wakes: 



Author Page: 


Midnight Rain: 


Last Girl Dancing:


I See You: 


I have much more fiction that’s commercially published, or which is out of print and has reverted to me, but which I have not yet republished.

I’m not linking to ANY of that fiction, because your purchase of used books or books where publishers haven’t paid royalties in years will not help me.

So there we are.

I want to thank all my patrons again, and I am so sorry that I had to do this, but there is no way I can permit this:

Excerpted from Patreon Legal Terms

You keep full ownership of all content that you post on Patreon, but to operate we need licenses from you.

By posting content to Patreon you grant us a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, sublicensable, worldwide license to use, reproduce, distribute, perform, publicly display or prepare derivative works of your content. 

No. Just NO.

P.S. I have had one of my Patreon patrons already ask me how she could continue to support me on a monthly basis.

Here’s the answer I gave her:

“I’ll look into what’s available. Right now, I’m crushed to discover the rights Patreon actually claimed, and worried about getting involved with any other site. So I’m in limbo. You’ll find my blog at HollyLisle.com. I’ll be keeping my folks there up to date on how I deal with this. It sucks.

Hugs, and thank you for asking.”

Why is EVERYBODY on my blog, my mailing list, and in my forums getting this?

Because if you know me, you’re probably either a reader or a writer. If you’re a writer, you may be considering using Patreon, and you need to know. If you’re a reader considering funding someone on Patreon, THEY need to know.

And this is the ugliest, broadest rights-grab I have personally ever seen. Or sadly, been caught up in.

Contents © Holly Lisle. https://hollylisle.com All Rights Reserved

The New Paranormal Suspense Covers

By Holly Lisle

I finished the following covers for my upcoming novels today:

Midnight Rain

I See You

Last Girl Dancing

Night Echoes

Because of a bit of a financial bump, I’m pushing hard to get all the backlist up in the next couple of months. To my amazement (because I thought exactly the opposite), I think the suspense novels are going to take the longest. I’m having to go through them and edit to bring the late-draft manuscript versions I have up to the published versions.

The scans don’t have to be rewritten. They just have to be edited, and my guys (and in two cases, my co-authors) are working on that.

So my release schedule is going to change completely, and will probably start with either the Arhel trilogy or the Devil’s Point trilogy.

But there will be books soon. 😀

Contents © Holly Lisle. https://hollylisle.com All Rights Reserved

A Book Giveaway (sort of)

By Holly Lisle

Lots of my novels for free if you’ll pay the postage.

I underestimated the extent of my problem. And I do have a few copies of some of the later Baen books. And I found the missing Vengeance of Dragons copies. Lots of them.
My Problem, Part One
My Problem, Part Two

Any more volunteers?

Also, much to my amazement, I have no remaining copies of the historical thing. Many apologies. Holly

P.S. The scary thing is, I suspect there are still more books hiding in corners. I’m afraid.

SATURDAY: The Original Post

I have a bunch of copies of my own work I need to get rid of.

  • I’d have one massive contest and winners galore, but I can’t afford the shipping for that many books.
  • I can’t sell them–that’s in the contracts.
  • I don’t want to dump them at libraries; I’d rather give them to individual folks.
  • I considered doing a Books of the Wild thing, where I’d send boxes of books to people who agreed to send all but one of the books out into the world to meet new people, who could then log into a Wild Books Tracking Station to note where they got their book, and where they passed it on when they were done with it, with rules taped into the inside front covers to let the readers know how to find and log into the tracking station, (I thought this would be particularly cool) but as previously noted, I don’t have the money for all that shipping, and I can’t ask folks to pay shipping and then only keep one book.


I have at least a few of most of my more recent books (most of my post-Baen work) and a lot of a few of them. And I have some flat rate shipping boxes that ship to anywhere in the US for $8.95. In order to cover PayPal fees and packing up the box, add an extra dollar–total US shipping will be $9.95. Each box will comfortably fit 6 paperbacks, and as long as they last, one hardcover or galley. When I run out of hardcovers and galleys, I’ll throw in three extra paperbacks. (These are likely to be duplicates. If I have to send duplicates and you didn’t indicate that you wanted them, I’ll let you know before you pay for the shipping.)

If you’re willing to pay the postage, I’ll ship you a box of mixed books. If you don’t mind duplicates (to give to friends, for example), please note this in your entry. I have quite a few paperback Talyns, for example.

I’ll autograph one book in each box–I hurt my wrists, the right one especially, from too much knitting, which I’ve been using to deal with stress, and typing is painful and hand-writing pure agony. (Forget knitting. At the moment, I can barely hold yarn.) So give me your wish-list of three books you’d like to own in autographed form in order of your preference, and if I have it, I’ll sign and include one of those three books in the box. If I don’t, I’ll pick what I think is the best book in the box and autograph that one. These books won’t be personalized, just dated and signed. I apologize for this, because I usually personalize unless requested not to, but … pain. We’re not going to mention how exciting it is to type this.

I also have a couple of surprises (still my books, but special or odd in some way or another). No comment on those, but they’ll ship in the first boxes to go out.

All books are new, unread, but some do have dings on corners or other flaws–the boxes seem to pass through punishment testing en route to me from time to time.

If you enjoy ancient historical fiction, note this and I’ll throw in an unrelated book of which I happen to have a whole bunch of copies. If you really like it, I’ll send a few extra (I have lots and lots of copies). Just ask.

Here are the rules:

  1. You have to have some way of using PayPal, whether through your own PayPal account, a debit card, credit card, or checking account, to do this.
  2. Don’t send any money until I’ve packed your box and contacted you (and we’ve agreed on the shipping price if you’re outside the US).
  3. Special requests are first come, first served.
  4. All book boxes are ALSO first come, first served.
  5. If you have any books you already have and don’t want to accidentally get another of (even to pass on), please list these.
  6. The times on replies will serve as the final arbiter of who asked first. I will religiously check the spam and rescue requests while this offer is ongoing. If you have fallen afoul of the spam-catcher, let me know right away at holly AT hollylisle DOT com.
  7. This offer is only good until I run out of books.

The average value of a box of 6 paperback books with one hardcover will be about $67. I can’t guess the value of the galleys, but to collectors, I’m sure they’re fairly valuable. Average value of a box of nine paperbacks without a hardcover or galley will be about $63. If you’re outside the US, keep this number in mind when figuring shipping. You don’t want to pay more than the value of the books, and you’d probably want to stop at about half the value. For orders outside the US, we’ll figure on a case-by-case basis. You’re never obligated to buy–if shipping is too much for your budget, I can pack up just one or two books for you in a sturdy envelope or little box, or you can pass your box on to the next person on the list.

Make sure your e-mail address in your account on this weblog is correct, because that’s how I’ll contact each of you.

That’s it. If you’re interested, let me know here. The giveaway starts now.

Contents © Holly Lisle. https://hollylisle.com All Rights Reserved

NIGHT ECHOES is on shelves

By Holly Lisle

Night Echoes, by Holly LisleThis has to be noted as the latest an author has ever remembered to mention the debut of her own book. I found a couple of copies of NIGHT ECHOES on the shelves.

Last Friday.

[sigh] I plead PTIRSSD (Post-Traumatic Internal Revenue Service Stress Disorder) and new books in the making for forgetting to mention this until now.

On a separate note, the UK gets better commercials than the US. This is clean, but not office-safe, because the sound effects are the point and you really want to be able to hear them. It’s SO cool.

(Sent to my by my friend Keely.)

Contents © Holly Lisle. https://hollylisle.com All Rights Reserved

And the PW Review

By Holly Lisle

Thanks to Mary Germano, I got a copy of the PW review of Night Echoes yesterday. If you went into the Readers or Writers sections of the site, though, you’ll have noticed that I’m very slowly getting site bits into place At the moment, just the top navigation bar, later the new logo and submenus and possibly a new feature for site users. I’m still debating that.


Publishers’ Weekly says:

Night Echoes
Holly Lisle. Signet, $6.99 (320p) ISBN 978-0-451-22094-3

Night Echoes, by Holly Lisle“Romantic suspense twines neatly with the paranormal—and without a single vamp or were-creature—in Lisle’s latest, a chilling haunted house mystery that pits a sensible couple against the supernatural. Following the death of her adoptive father, artist Emma Beck leaves Wisconsin and buys a “falling-down, money-pit, creepy-ass” Civil War-era house in Benina, S.C., the hometown of her deceased biological mother…

“…Lisle keeps pages turning with steamy sex scenes, disturbing revelations and a good old-fashioned ghost story, all building to a white-knuckle conclusion; it’s more than enough to please romantic suspense fans and should make a satisfying treat for anyone burned out on bloodsuckers. (Apr.)”

The middle part had more info than I wanted to give on the main story, plus I’m uncomfortable printing the whole review—pretty sure that runs counter to fair use. So I clipped it. It was all good. A first for me from PW.

Contents © Holly Lisle. https://hollylisle.com All Rights Reserved

The Good PW Review

By Holly Lisle

My agent called me yesterday to let me know that NIGHT ECHOES got a good review from Publishers’ Weekly. She’s going to photocopy it and mail it to me: The bookstores in my town do not, for some complex, arcane, and probably diabolical reason, don’t carry Publishers’ Weekly.

It might be a plot.

In any case, PW liked it, and as soon as I get the copy, I’ll post some quotes.


In other news, I did get the monthly affiliate newsletter up on time (Feb. 1), and for the first time, I had three bonus winners, which was really cool. And I’ve posted current leaders.


I’d like to put up links to all the active affiliates’ sites (where you have your ads, if you’d like—this way, you might improve your sales. E-mail me at publisher AT hollylisle DOT com (take out the spaces, change the capitalized words to symbols) and let me know your affiliate name, your real name, and the link you’d like to use.

Contents © Holly Lisle. https://hollylisle.com All Rights Reserved

Praise for an unknown copyeditor

By Holly Lisle

Usually manuscript copyedits have the name of the copyeditor on the processing sheet. This time they didn’t, and I wish they had. I’d love to write a thank you note to the person who did Night Echoes. They were, bar none, the least frustrating, clearest, and most straightforward edits I’ve ever done.

I’m finished with them, and will have them to Claire on time. Sweet, sweet words are these: I’m done ahead of deadline.

Contents © Holly Lisle. https://hollylisle.com All Rights Reserved

Backgrounding wonderfulness, and back to work

By Holly Lisle

My bud sent me a book on bookbinding some time ago, and I picked up one on handmade books. Things have to float around in my subconscious for a while before I figure out what to do with them, and these books were like that.

I don’t know if it was the fever, or just a connection of strange dreams and good timing, but I had this amazing idea while I was sickest—to take the moonroading background I’ve been working up in my head (for The Ruby Key and the MOON & SUN series) and do it as a painted journal written by the cat for the girl who’s the hero of the series. Ang the Cat’s Secret Guide to Moonroading. I don’t know if it’s anything Scholastic will be interested in, but if it isn’t, I can always do it as an e-book and a full-color art book on Lulu.

Today I’m doing the copyedit for Night Echoes, and it’s been one of those days. I’m not completely better yet (though Thera-flu, Cold-Eze, and other things have helped a lot), but deadlines know no mercy. The cat is purring on my shoulder as I write this, though, and I remind myself that I could as easily be at work in a hospital where everyone else is sick, too, and nobody can take sick time because then there’d be no nurses at all, and I am deeply grateful to be doing copyedits on the couch, wrapped in a blanket and sipping hot tea.

Should have this done today, should be doing copyedits on the Create a Character Clinic tomorrow. And then getting ready to give the kid some fun on Halloween.

Hope you’re doing well, and thank you for the good wishes. I appreciate them.

Contents © Holly Lisle. https://hollylisle.com All Rights Reserved

Sick again

By Holly Lisle

Received the copyedits for NIGHT ECHOES—they’re pretty clean. Shouldn’t take long, but I feel dreadful. The kidlet caught something, and now we’ve caught it. So work is catch-as-catch-can for the next few days.

Contents © Holly Lisle. https://hollylisle.com All Rights Reserved

First Draft of Culture Clinic is done

By Holly Lisle

Have to do the copyedit of NIGHT ECHOES tomorrow. Will proof and publish Culture Clinic when that is done.

Contents © Holly Lisle. https://hollylisle.com All Rights Reserved